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Judy Woodruff:

President Trump's former campaign chairman

in legal hot water again.

In a court filing late Monday,

prosecutors for special counsel Robert Mueller

accused

Paul Manafort

of lying to them

and to the FBI

on a variety of subject matters.

Manafort

said

in that same filing

that he has provided

truthful information.

was previously convicted

on a number of criminal charges

brought by Mueller.

And, in September,

pleaded

guilty

to other crimes.

In doing so,

Manafort also

agreed to cooperate

with the special counsel's team.

Here now

to help us digest

this newest accusation

is Renato Mariotti.

worked previously

as a federal prosecutor

focusing on white-collar crimes.

is now a defense attorney

in private practice.

Renato Mariotti,

welcome back

to the "NewsHour."

So, tell us,

how unusual

is this

for a special counsel

in a situation

like this

to have worked out

a plea deal,

but then to turn around and say,

the defendant,

the person

we're working with,

has lied,

and we

think

the plea deal

is worthless

now?

Renato Mariotti:

is extremely unusual, Judy.

In my almost decade

as a former federal prosecutor,

when I was

in that job,

had never gone

to the step

of having a cooperation deal

fall apart

and having to go to the judge

and make a statement

like this.

And I will tell

you,

worked

in a very large office

in Chicago

with well over 100 other prosecutors.

And I

don't recall

that ever happening

during the almost decade

that I was doing it.

So it's

very, very unusual situation,

because, typically, coordinators

want to be

on the government's team.

That's

why they sign

the deal.

There are

huge incentives

for them

to be truthful,

to tell the government everything

that they know.

That is

what they are instructed

by the prosecutors

and by the FBI agents.

And, on the other side,

the prosecutors

are trying to work

with the cooperator.

They want

their testimony.

They want

their information.

So, typically,

there is

not this sort of falling apart

to this level.

It's

something

that is really hard

to get your head around.

Judy Woodruff:

So, as we said,

Paul Manafort

is saying

what he has said

was truthful.

We have

got two completely opposite versions

of what happened here.

But,

in doing so,

if what Robert Mueller is saying

is correct,

what Paul Manafort has done

is open himself up

to a longer prison sentence.

Renato Mariotti:

That's

exactly right, Judy.

And the judge

will ultimately make

that decision.

So Paul Manafort

can have

whatever position

he wants.

Ultimately,

Bob Mueller's

going to present

evidence and reasons and an explanation

to the judge.

And it

will be up

to the judge

to decide,

not beyond a reasonable doubt,

but by essentially

a 51 percent standard,

as to whether or not

Paul Manafort did

these things.

And if she believes

that he did,

in fact,

lie to the FBI,

she must,

under law,

consider

all of his behavior,

including that,

when she fashions

his sentence.

And you

better believe

that if the judge decides

that he did lie

to the FBI

and he lied

to Mr. Mueller and his team,

she

is going to give

him

a much higher sentence.

is not going

to go very well

for him.

Judy Woodruff:

So, it appears

that whatever the exchanges were

that the special counsel believes

is not truthful,

not factual,

that's going

to come out later

in the statement

they issued

last night.

They said

that they were going

to put forward

the details of the defendant's crimes.

So does

that tell us anything,

that Robert Mueller

is prepared

to lay out exactly

what Manafort did?

Renato Mariotti:

Well, it certainly means,

Judy,

first of all,

is asking

the judge

to consider

this

at sentencing.

This means

that he wants

the judge

to take this into account.

As I mentioned

a moment ago,

that's

the judge's duty to do.

And what it also tells us

is at least some portions of this,

so there's

enough there

that he feels

it's not

too sensitive to disclose.

In other words,

if Paul Manafort was lying

about very sensitive classified matters,

you can imagine

that being something

that was all done

under seal.

But here,

at least

I think

we can expect

some portions of this

will ultimately play themselves out

in the sentencing process,

and we will hear

at least about some or a good portion

of what Mr. Mueller is alleging

Manafort did.

Judy Woodruff:

Of course,

there's so much

we don't know.

We know

Robert Mueller is looking

at any possible connection

between the Trump presidential campaign,

Russian officials.

We do know

that this filing

by the special counsel

comes out

three days,

just a matter of a few days

after President Trump answered

questions

that Robert Mueller's office

had put to him.

And we have a statement today

from the president's lawyer,

Rudy Giuliani, telling reporters

that maybe the prosecutor

in his zeal

to get the president

may have gone

too far.

Renato Mariotti:

I see

no evidence to indicate

that that is the case.

And what we have seen,

frankly,

in the process of the interview process

that you refer, to Judy,

is extraordinary deference

being shown to the president.

I will tell you,

when I represent clients,

the government doesn't let me clients represent —

you know,

make their answers in writing.

The process

usually doesn't take

a year long.

So I think

they have been deferential. [경의를 표하는]

As to Mr. Manafort,

the facts are going

to play out

through the process

we just discussed

a moment ago.

If Mr. Mueller is able to prove

that Mr. Manafort lied to the FBI,

that is going to be very bad news

for Mr. Manafort,

and I don't think

anyone could say

that he was treated

unfairly in that circumstance.

Judy Woodruff:

Just quickly,

I want to also say

there was a report

in the British newspaper The Guardian today

that Paul Manafort met

with the founder of WikiLeaks, Julian Assange,

on three different occasions,

including in the spring of 2016,

just exactly around the time

he went to work

for the Trump campaign.

Now,

Manafort is denying this,

but, if it were true,

it seems to me

that could have

a lot of significance

here.

Renato Mariotti:

There's

no question.

I mean,

WikiLeaks was the operation

that distributed

the hacked e-mails

from Democrats in the United States.

Hacking a server

in the United States

is a federal crime.

Anyone who participated in

that would — a conspiracy

to do that or aided

that would be guilty of a crime.

Obviously, knowing about that

or having discussions about

that doesn't necessarily constitute

a crime,

but it would certainly lead — potentially

could lead Mueller down

that direction.

Judy Woodruff:

All right, Renato Mariotti,

thank you very much.

Renato Mariotti:

Thank you.

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[1끊어읽기] President Trump's former campaign chairman is in legal hot water again.

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